The It, We, and I of Leadership
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SUMMARY In this episode, I sit down with Russ Powell of Russ Powell Consulting to explore what it really takes to be an effective leader and team builder. Russ shares the winding path that led him from psychology and teaching to instructional design, the U.S. Coast Guard, and eventually into leadership development. We talk about why most people don’t think systemically, the value of simplicity in coaching, and how habits like journaling, poetry, and reflection can power real transformation. Russ also shares his daily poem, practical frameworks for teams, and what makes his coaching style unique.
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Russ’s Career Journey 00:00:30
• From Jesuit studies to instructional design and corporate consulting
• Working with the U.S. Coast Guard, Sun Microsystems, and Genentech
• Founding Peregrine Performance Group and eventually launching Russ Powell ConsultingLeadership and Team Development 00:06:16
• From Jesuit studies to instructional
• Common mistakes leaders make—especially in startups
• Building systems thinking and collaborative problem-solving skills
• The “It, We, I” model and how to apply it in daily reflectionDaily Practices for Growth 00:08:47
• Bug Russ: Reflecting on yourself as if from the outside
• Morning habits: meditation, walks, and starting the day with poetry
• Writing, journaling, and simple visual models for self-awarenessPoetry and Emotional Grounding 00:22:45
• How poetry helps in personal clarity and emotional processing
• Russ’ daily poem
• Using poetry as a leadership tool in times of grief and transitionBusiness Insights and Frameworks 00:36:15
• What makes his coaching different
• The Freedom Compass and applying frameworks to productivity
• Admin challenges and how to stay focused on the work that mattersBooks & Inspiration 00:39:16
• Humankind by Rutger Bregman: real-life stories of compassion and cooperation
• How to Survive the Loss of a Love: a beautifully structured book blending science, psychology, and poetryFinal Reflections 00:41:37
• Billboard message: “A desk is a dangerous place from which to view the world”
• Why self-awareness, courage, and simplicity are key to meaningful leadership
• Russ’ advice for leaders -
Russ Powell - RussPowell.com
Jonathan Mahrt - LinkedIn - Instagram
Website - http://www.flywheelconsulting.co/ -
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
This is on the Flywheel, a podcast where each week we talk to entrepreneurs and professionals about the practical things they do to build and keep momentum in their personal and professional lives. Hello and welcome to on the Flywheel. I am your host, Jonathan Mart of Flywheel Consulting. And today I'm very excited to have on Russ Powell of Russ Powell Consulting. Thanks for being on today.
Russ Powell (B):
Thanks for inviting me. I'm looking forward to this.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So we're going to jump right into it. The first question I always ask everyone, and like we talked about before, I'm excited for your answer because I think you have a very interesting career history. I'd love to hear a little bit about your career journey and how you got to being a consultant today and a little bit what you do now.
Russ Powell (B):
How much time?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, we have like 40 minutes.
Russ Powell (B):
I'll give you the overview. So, yeah, I, you know, I. Let's see. I grew up in the Southeast in Atlanta and went to school in New Orleans. I have a couple of degrees. One in psychology from Loyola, a good Jesuit school, New Orleans. Right. And then one from Georgia State, a degree in counseling.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Loyola's a beautiful school, by the way, in New Orleans. Yes. I mean, I've, like, walked a little bit around the campus.
Russ Powell (B):
So anyway, I grew up in a very religious family, and right out of graduate school, I had been recruited by the Jesuits. And so I spent a year with the Jesuits. It didn't take me but a few months to decide I didn't want to be a priest. But leaving that, I ended up teaching. Well, as a part of my graduate studies, I was teaching at Georgia State. The Jesuits are known as a teaching order. And so that's one of the big things I liked about them, some social justice issues that they deal with and whatnot. But when I left the Jesuits, I got back into teaching as a part of my I had done some teaching in my internship and got back into that and decided that I was teaching at Georgia State and decided I really wanted to be in business and got into instructional design. You know, if you've ever been to a good training program, a good training program, there's always not the crappy ones. There's always somebody behind the scenes who's designing that course, trying to figure out, well, what are we going to teach and how are we going to teach it? What games are we going to play? How are we going to people test their understanding. And so I got into that, and that's what I did for most of my career. I did early on, right after my graduate studies get into leadership and team development, which I'm doing today. But I think I was too young. I think people just like this guy. What does he have to offer? Right?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, I gotta imagine it's tough to want to learn leadership and stuff from. From someone that's never led anything really.
Russ Powell (B):
Exactly, exactly. But that was part of my early decision making where I ended up deciding to get into instructional design. And I love that work. I moved to California in 97 and was doing some of that work with a guy named Chris Holmberg. He's a mentor of mine who I still work with a lot today. And I'm thinking, let's see. So my instructional design work brought me to working with the U.S. coast Guard. I spent several years running the instructional systems design team for the Coast Guard base or one of the teams in Petaluma. People don't know this. That's the largest west coast training center in the U.S. yeah, yeah. And so I got some chops there. My mentor Chris Holmberg and I with some others built the first state of the art corporate university for Nelson Staffing or Nelson Connects. Now I know you know, some people, it was like late 90s when we were doing that. And Chris and I kept in touch after that work while I was doing instructional systems design work, not just for the Coast Guard, but I ended up working with Sun Microsystems, which is now part of Oracle and Roche and Genentech and those guys. Anyway, I just got tired of that after maybe 25 years and just shifted back into leadership and team development. About five years ago.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Were you. Just a quick question. Were you working for these companies as like a standard W2 employee or were you doing some sort of kind of consult Also?
Russ Powell (B):
I was working as a part of a consulting organization. So like for the Coast Guard I was working with, they tend to run through companies. Titan L3, there was another one, I can't remember.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay, so you were employed by a consulting company then advising these other companies.
Russ Powell (B):
Exactly, Exactly. And then one is working with Sun Microsystems. I was an employee, W2 employee. But then for a while I was running a company called Peregrine Performance Group with a buddy of mine and we had clients like SAP and Roche and Genentech and those guys. So that again, we were a consulting firm, my own consulting firm, but working for these clients.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Interesting, interesting. So that brings us to Russ Powell Consulting today.
Russ Powell (B):
Yes.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So what are you doing today?
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah, so today leadership and team development. Mostly what I do is work with startups, growing startups, who you can imagine, they have managers who May have great technical expertise, but they're not universally. But oftentimes they struggle with, let's call it collaborative problem solving skills. You know, solving problems, working with people.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That kind of thing.
Russ Powell (B):
And that's pretty much what I do. I help them build skills and systems thinking and collaborative problem solving and how to have those difficult conversations. We're all avoiding stuff like that.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. All the hard things. Right?
Russ Powell (B):
Exactly, exactly.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So what inspired you to go out and start your own gig then? How long have you been doing it on your own?
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah, for a very long time. Russ Powell Consulting has two iterations. One was doing instructional systems design work. And then I shifted to Peregrine with my business partner, Joe Halpin. And then when I got. When Peregrine crashed and burned. It's a long, sad story. We did a lot of great work, but in the end it crashed and burned. I rebooted Ross Powell Consulting doing leadership and team development.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Gotcha. Gotcha. So one, I guess, I mean, I'm excited to talk to you about some leadership and team stuff because I think that's so interesting. What are some of the, like, I mean, obviously I don't want. You want to give up the whole goose here, but just high level. What are some of the, like, common mistakes that you see people making when they're leading teams?
Russ Powell (B):
Good question. One of them. And I don't mind giving up the goose. I often feel like I'm working myself out of a job. But one of the things, and it's the first, if you come through one.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Of my leadership workshops, you're giving people a little taste.
Russ Powell (B):
Yes.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You give them a little hit so they come back for more.
Russ Powell (B):
The first thing we address is systems thinking, the ability to think systemically. You know, I think as human beings, we're not. We're not very good at thinking systemically. Right. You know, you bring me a problem and I think it's your fault. Right. I'm not. I'm not looking around to see who else could be involved. Or you bring me a problem this afternoon and I think the cause was this morning. Right. And that's just what we tend to do as human beings. But what I do is I offer.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
By the way, my wife complains about that all the time, that I'm not really understanding what she's actually about.
Russ Powell (B):
You're just being human. One of those things we struggle with. So I will talk about my models or my workshops, but that's misleading because virtually everything I work on or almost everything I work with comes from my mentor, Chris Holmberg. So like the Leadership in the Middle path, which is my foundational workshop, Chris designed that. I just have the honor of being able to facilitate it. So when I talk about my models, more often than not I'm talking about models I got from Chris Holmberg. And one of the things I love about his models is they're all very simple. Right? No, 17 step models to having a better conversation.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right, right.
Russ Powell (B):
Did I remember step 13? So for systems thinking, we have this really simple model called the. The we and the I. You and I have talked about this where it represents structural things, roles, goals, processes. The. The we is all about relationships. And I is for individuals. And so, you know, people don't tend to think systemically. And just having a simple model like that for any given problem helps you think more multidimensionally about possible root causes. And the more you're likely to come up with, I call them non obvious root causes, the more likely you are to solve the problem. Well, so it stays solved. You don't waste time or money.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So what's the one thing then? If, like, if someone was to take it, like if you were to give someone the one thing they could do in their, in their daily life to just do a better job in their teams, what would that one thing be? Just like the highest impact 80, 20 rule.
Russ Powell (B):
Right, right. Well, I think that's part of it is to adopt a habit of thinking systemically. But also, I stole this from. I can't even remember who it was. This guy, I think it was on the Tim Ferriss podcast where he talked about. I can't remember his name, but I think of it as Bug Russia, where you look at yourself the same way you would look at a bug on the ground. You're like, oh, wow, why did he go left?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Instead of thinking, oh, so you're saying you Russ as a bug. Bug Russ.
Russ Powell (B):
Right. Or bug Jonathan.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay, Bug Jonathan.
Russ Powell (B):
So, but the idea being that every day you take a little bit of time to reflect, you know, examine yourself. What did you do? What did you do? Well, how did you. What did you struggle with those kinds of things. And you can use the we and the I to help you think through that. How did my projects go? How are my relationships going? How am I doing as a person, individually, that kind of thing. And you reflect on today. How did Bug Russ do? But you also use that model to help think to the future for tomorrow. You're planning your day.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay, so do you think that people should be writing this down in some way? Should this be Part of, like, a journaling habit should be a part of, like, reflecting on how should people.
Russ Powell (B):
My recommendation is to write it down, but I tell you, I joke that I spend a lot of time leading horses to water.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Russ Powell (B):
Right. And sometimes they drink, sometimes they don't. I'm thinking if you can just reflect, great. If you can write it down, even better. So. But writing it down helps you be able to kind of look back for trends and that kind of thing.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever. Have you ever looked into anything like, you know, some people have kind of create like a little scoring system for themselves. What do you think about doing something like that?
Russ Powell (B):
Oh, I like the sound of that. I. You know, I don't know that much about those.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, the. Yeah. I've seen people do, like, they'll say, what are they? You know, they'll come up with four or five things that are super important to them.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And I mean, people have. I should say, people get very elaborate with this stuff. I would guess that most of the people that have really elaborate systems tend to burn out because you can only handle maintaining the systems for so long. So the simpler you make them, the more likely you are to actually keep doing them.
Russ Powell (B):
Well said.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Well said.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So they'll do, you know, kind of like they'll just do a circle, like basically half circle if they did a pretty good job, or a full circle if they feel like they did well with that thing for the day or something like that.
Russ Powell (B):
You're reminding me. One of the exercises we do with the it, the we and the I, is have people draw three roughly equal circles. Right. For the it, the we, and the I label them. And then if the outside of the circle represents perfection for the it, like, all my projects are going perfectly well. I'm hitting all my deadlines, whatever. For the we, perfection would be, you know, my relationships are perfect. Right. You know, I'm just in sync with everybody for my eye, you know, I know my moods. You know, I can hold my energy all day long. So the outside circle represents perfection. So you would draw an inner circle that represents reality for you to today.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Like how far away you are from that.
Russ Powell (B):
Exactly. Right. So if that's perfection and my IT business is not going well, I might have a very small circle. For me today, business is going pretty well. So fairly large circle. But inside of that other circle, you do that for the it, the we, and the I. And it helps you. I have one person who says every day at work, he draws those three circles, and whatever one is smallest that's what he kind of leans into that day.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's actually kind of an interesting thing to do. Possibly like a daily habit is just making those circles every day and so simple. Yeah. And just, just as a really easy visual check in.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Because I, for me, like writing, I have on and again, off again, had, you know, different journaling habits and stuff over the years. But when I do it, it always feels good. And sometimes when my mind is, for me, it's very cathartic and very clarifying to write, to do. Especially like stream of conscious stuff when I'm trying to like work through something and the mind feels cluttered. So I. I think that can be a really useful exercise.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah. So it's not just reflection, but a way of kind of uncluttering your mind. I used to have a mentor who'd say you never really know what you think until you talk about it or you write it down. Powerful exercise.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, I mean, I hear that feedback from a lot of people too, that just like. I mean, I've heard more extreme examples are like, you know, people will sit down and try and get even about just like random things in their life or like how they feel about different issues and stuff like that. You know, lots of times we don't take a lot of time to actually think through systemically how we feel about different things or what our opinions are on things. And so then it makes it hard to take a stance on different topics because you don't feel like you've really put in the work to think through things. And so writing it down can once again be quite clarifying.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah, you reminded me. This is another model that I got from Chris Holmberg many years ago was when you're thinking about yourself, you think pie the physical, intellectual and emotional states. How am I doing physically, intellectually, emotionally. So just another very simple model that you can use for structuring your writing, your journal entry or your thinking.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, no, that's really, really good. I will also make a recommendation too. There's a guy named, I don't know if you ever heard of Michael Hyatt.
Russ Powell (B):
Oh, yes.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
He's done a lot of great, like, kind of personal productivity, content and stuff. He has a. Since we're talking a little bit about a planner called a Full focus Planner that has a lot of. As a part of it, there's like goal setting, some daily stuff. It's all about handwriting stuff. Because there's a lot of evidence that like we've been talking about the handwriting is very effective. Even though we live in the digital world with thousands of digital tasks, for.
Russ Powell (B):
Me, unreadable, but effective.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
But.
Russ Powell (B):
Sorry, I interrupted you.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
No, you're fine. I mean, as long as you get there. Right? It's. But. And what's nice about this planner is that it's like you have one planner for every quarter, and then. But as a part of every day, there is kind of a daily review process built into the planner, and then at the end of every week, a weekly review process built into the planner. And it's just really good. So the whole idea is in, like in the beginning, the planner, you set annual and then quarterly goals, and then you're. And then you're creating what you think is an ideal week. And then every day you're kind of in every week, you're reflecting back on those things and doing a regular check in, you know, because lots of times we try and set annual goals, but then we don't break it down any smaller than that. And so when you try and set an annual goal, it's no one. No one does it. No one. I don't think anyone really makes annual goals. Right. So if you shorten the time span, it really helps.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah. Or you just. You break it apart. You reminded me one of my first jobs out of graduate school. I taught time management for a little company. They were bought by Franklin. Nobody knows them, but they were bought.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
By Franklin Covey, which everyone. Well, older folks know Franklin Covey.
Russ Powell (B):
But, yeah, I'm surprised at how many people, especially some of my coaches, I do a fair amount of coaching. They don't really have rules of thumb or ways to plan. And so. So it's, you know, I'll often ask to look at people's calendars and, you know, walk me through, and I'm surprised when I get, you know, deer in the headlights or. People don't really know about planning. So I. It's a really important skill that if you don't know, you know, there are plenty of resources or let me know.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, yeah. Talk to you about it.
Russ Powell (B):
But you were reminding me of another mentor. I stand on the shoulders of so many people.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Everyone does. No one's an original.
Russ Powell (B):
You plan a day, once a day, a week, once a. Once a week, a month. Once a month or a quarter, but in a year. Once a year. So, you know, like, every day, I've got a little chunk of time planned for planning the next day every week. It's usually on Sunday nights. I'm sitting down, planning the next week. Every quarter, I'M kind of looking at the quarter ahead, and once a year I take one or two days to just dig in and look back at the year. Somebody said if you want to know what you value, you look at your checkbook and your calendar. Nobody uses checkbooks these days, but QuickBooks or Quicken or whatever you're using.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Russ Powell (B):
In your calendar. But. But I use that time to kind of look back and see, well, what did I do and where did I go and how did I, you know, meet the goals I had set and then set my plan for the next year.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, I think. I think that's really useful and that. That kind of ties in with that planner that I was talking about. Similar system. And I think that's really helpful. I don't think that it's really easy to. For life to just pass you by and just be. To get a little more philosophical with it, but just to be kind of just. You're just in the hamster wheel and you're just going, going, going, going, going, and you're never reflecting on whether or not you're spending time on the right things.
Russ Powell (B):
It seems like it speeds up the older you get.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, I've heard the reason for that is because, you know, when you're 10, one year is a tenth of your life. Right. And that fraction gets smaller and smaller. So relative to your total lifespan, blocks of time get smaller and smaller, which always made sense to me. So I want to talk a little bit about just what you think makes you successful. I think that's.
Russ Powell (B):
I have no idea.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I think we were touching on some of the things. Right. Some of these practices. And one thing I've been talking to people about is do you consider yourself a morning person or a night person?
Russ Powell (B):
That's a good question. Because left to my own devices, I would never sleep. I would just stay up all night. Interesting. Do things. But I also. I love being up really early before the sun comes up, before everybody else is up. It's so quiet. Often take walks before the sun comes up, that kind of thing. So it's hard to answer. So I think because I'm working, my schedule kind of pushes me to lean more into the morning hours. But quite literally, if I didn't have to sleep, I wouldn't. I don't know. I feel like I leave. I hope we all do, but I notice I tend to lead a rich, full life and I just want more of it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Yeah. So if you had, like, when do you think you get your, you know, standard business schedule aside like, when do you think you'd get your deep, like, best deep work done? And you think it's more in the evening would be more in the evening or more in the morning?
Russ Powell (B):
Probably in the morning after a good night's sleep.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah. And sometimes it seems like this is a. I can't remember. I have an example related to this. Did you and I talk about the fact that I once worked as a professional juggler?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I have heard this. I'd love for you to elaborate on that.
Russ Powell (B):
So. So the phenomenon that I'm trying to get to is this idea that you're working on a problem. One day you go to sleep, and the next morning you have answers and you don't know where they came from. And one of the things I noticed when I was juggling so I went to school in New Orleans, and one of the things there I picked up, the jugglers who worked the French Quarter would practice in Audubon park, right across the street from where I was at school, Loyola. And you've. You and I might have talked about this idea that sometimes you might, or at least once in your life, I hope people have this where you see people doing something and some part of you goes, I want to do that. And so this would happen for me when I saw these two people passing clubs, you know, two people the. Exactly. Passing. And they were doing so well, it's like, I want to do that. And so it turns out that they practiced with jugglers who work the French Quarter in Audubon Park. And I would go every Sunday afternoon and go practice with these guys. And I got good. I got really good. Not that people were paying me and stuff like that, but I remember that I'd be working on a really hard trick, like, I don't know, juggling four clubs. That's ridiculously hard. And I would sleep on it, or I'd go away from it for a few days, and then when I came back, it's almost like my body had been working on it. And when I tried the. That new pattern, I would get it. It would fall apart. But the first time I tried it, I would get it for a few repetitions. Well, where did that come from? So, yeah, anyway. But I think that applies to other things. And so I find in the morning it's often. Maybe it's from good night's sleep and some setting up the problem ahead of time, but I often get ideas and insights and answers that I didn't have the day before.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's. That's helpful. I'm Definitely a morning person. 100%. 6 to 10 would be. It's not always feasible, but that would be the sweet spot for me in terms of being productive and getting deep work done. But I don't. It's interesting that you talk about. People talk about that all the time, like going to sleep or having the shower. Thoughts or things. I personally have that experience as much where it just like something pops into my head, I think where I have breakthroughs. Once again to keep talking about this, it's writing stuff down like stream of consciousness. Just like putting things on paper is where I feel like my best kind of like thoughts come from. So it's always interesting how people's brains work.
Russ Powell (B):
We're all different. But then we're back to the bug Russ bug. Jonathan is just being where do I get my ideas? And you notice that you tend. That's so valuable to notice that you get them. That's a great point from writing.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Really taking time to understand yourself and what works and creating a situation that you know you're going to be productive in. Right. I think that's super. That's super helpful. So are there. Speaking of, you know, starting your day, is there anything that. Do you have any particular. And we've talked a little bit about this perhaps, but any kind of particular daily habits, whether the beginning or the end or middle of your day that you're doing that feel like help make you successful?
Russ Powell (B):
Well, I. I try to be faithful to this, but I don't every day. But I try and meditate for a little while, get a little exercise. I often take a walk in the morning. I mentioned that I often. I have a poem that I say every morning.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Interesting.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah. If you'd like. I'd be happy to.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I'd love to hear it. I also should have told you to bring something in a juggle.
Russ Powell (B):
Oh, maybe next time. I'm hoping this will be the first of several.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I'm sure it will be.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah. But. Yeah. So almost every day I start my day with this poem. It comes from a guy named John o' Donoghue. He's an Irish poet, author. He was a priest philosopher and. And it goes like this. I bless the night that nourished my heart to set the ghosts of longing free into the flow and figure of dream that went to harvest from the dark bread for the hunger no one sees. All that is eternal in me welcomes the wonder of this day. The field of brightness it creates, offering time for each thing to arise and. And illuminate. I place on the altar of dawn. I love this. The quiet loyalty of breath I smile with this. The tent of thought where I shelter which is just something I think too much. The tent of thought where I shelter Waves of desire I am sure too and all beauty drawn to the eye. May my mind come alive today to the invisible geography of new front that invites me to new frontiers to break the dead shell of yesterday's and to risk being disturbed and changed is my favorite part. May I have the courage today to live the life that I would love to postpone my dream no longer but do at last what I came here for and waste my heart on fear no more.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
It's very beautiful.
Russ Powell (B):
Isn't that great?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's great. Yeah. That was much more. I'm just impressed that you had the whole thing memorized. That was much more than I was. I was thinking like a little limerick or something.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I love that. And it's a. I don't know, what is that, two minutes, three minutes? Something like that. So. But it's a kind of a morning meditation that I enjoy. I love that part about letting my, you know, don't waste my heart on food.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yes. So what is it about that specific poem that speaks to you?
Russ Powell (B):
Oh, well, I think it does several things. One is it's. I'm not a very religious person, and it helps me kind of tap back into some of my more religious days, I suppose. But the habit of having something that's like a touch tone every day and a reminder that, you know, our days are limited and, you know, as a person, you wouldn't know this without asking, but I'm terrified of so many things. And this is just kind of a reminder. You know, I kind of think I'm here for a purpose. And, you know, those things that I'm scared of, it's okay to lean into them. You know, things like that.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So that's.
Russ Powell (B):
Those are the big things.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. That's great. I think that comes back to that whole reflection activity, you know? Yeah. Reflecting on what. Basically you're saying these are. This the way I'm reading it. Is that like saying that poem every day is a way of saying, like, these are my priorities today. Like, these are the things I want to make sure I focus on and don't lose sight of that, you know, as a kind of a guidepost for how I approach my day?
Russ Powell (B):
It's funny, I have a blog post that I forget the title. It's something like every now and then, a leader needs a good poet.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's Catchy. I like that.
Russ Powell (B):
And I think, you know, I don't tend to talk about poets or poetry or poems that often, but poets are often people who have put into words those things that we struggle with. Right. And so it feels like a shortcut to kind of lean into them for helping us think about things we don't ordinarily think about.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. It's like putting emotion to words or something like that.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's really.
Russ Powell (B):
Emotions that we. My mother passed away this summer, and I found poetry really helpful for all those crazy emotions you experience when you're dealing with death of a significant person, you know?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. That's so interesting. So do you find yourself reading poetry often?
Russ Powell (B):
A lot, actually. More than I. More than I would have imagined if you'd asked me this, you know, when I was 12 or something. But. Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Who are your. I mean, obviously we heard one.
Russ Powell (B):
John o' Donoghue.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
John o' Donnehue.
Russ Powell (B):
Favorite poets?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. So some of your preferred poets.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah. There's a woman. I don't know if I'm gonna pronounce her name correctly. Naomi Shahid Nye, something like that. She has a poem called Kindness that I love a lot. Mary Oliver. Billy Collins.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I know Billy Collins.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Did like a report on him in high school or something.
Russ Powell (B):
There's so many.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Well, we'll have to. We'll have to. You know, I do record people's book recommendations. You'll have to give some book poetry book recommendations to me that I. To add to the description. If you've got anything that people. A couple of those that people might enjoy.
Russ Powell (B):
You mean now or later?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
No, no later. Unless you do know some other.
Russ Powell (B):
Well, I think as long as John o' Donoghue is on our minds, he's got a book. It's kind of a book of blessings, but it's called something like Blessed the Space Between Us that. That poem that I read comes out of, so. But that's the book I took back with me to Atlanta when we buried my mom.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay. Wow.
Russ Powell (B):
And found all sorts of good uses for it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So that's a good one then. I mean, that speaks a lot to the quality of that. So I want to talk. Let's talk a little bit about. Get back to your business a little bit. I want to hear about, like, what's one of the best things about running your business and the work that you're doing?
Russ Powell (B):
You probably hear this from people all the time. The best part is the work.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Well, that's great. Not everyone feels that way.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah. No, no, no. I hope that I can spend the rest of my career helping people learn to be better leaders and build better teams and that kind of thing. But my favorite part of my work is when I'm working with ideally one other person or perhaps a team and I'm helping them as an individual or a group. It's usually like two or three people figure out what is it that I want. You know, maybe for the it, the we and the I. Right. For the project, the relationships, you know, my interest in having a trusting relationship with you or whatever it is. Right. And for me personally. But understand those and then have the courage and the words to articulate that. Right. So I love that. And so much magic comes from that. Sometimes it's people moving deeper into organizations, sometimes it's them leaving organizations, sometimes it's helping projects get better or something. This is a crazy idea. We need to cancel this and move on to something else. But that kind of work I just love.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. I mean, I think for me it's always. I just love making things better. You know, I was talking to having a one on one meeting with someone today and you know, it's almost a compulsion to see something that could be better and like to do something about it.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
You know, like I just want like. And so then I'm trying to make a business about that. Right. It's helping people run their businesses better because there's so many opportunities that most people aren't taking advantage of.
Russ Powell (B):
So you're saying you can see the problem and you want to fix it for them, that kind of thing.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I want to help them fix it. Yeah. I think it's interesting when you talk about systems thinking. I think the way I. A lot of my business acumen and my experience comes from working with my father, right? Oh yes, yes. And in our family and our farm. And I think his approach is very like always approaching things like very logically, very rationally, like step by step. And I think I just picked that up from working with him from so long and approaching problems and stuff, like highly rational. And I just, I think that's just like why now? Maybe also growing up that way too probably like hardwired deep in me that it's like if you see someone doing something and it doesn't. In fact, it's to the point where like I've had to learn not to say things because it gets obnoxious, actually, but. And not everyone wants unsolicited advice all the time. But just like to see something that doesn't look right and to not make it better is hard for me.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah. It sounds like it's hardwired. You just. You grew up with a very talented guy doing that.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. He has other. As. As we all. He has other flaws, but in that particular way, he was very good, very skilled at seeing a problem and finding creative ways to address it and not being content with a problem continuing to exist as well. So I think that's an easy trap to fall into. That's great. Yeah. Now, the flip side of that is, what's one of the things that you don't like about what you do?
Russ Powell (B):
Oh, that's easy. All the administrative stuff, the bookkeeping, the writing proposals, and, you know, trying to wrangle schedules and stuff like that.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. As someone I know says, administrivia is. Yeah. All the kind of. Yeah. That stuff. I don't think any. Well, maybe some people like that because there are executive assistants and things like that that. Like those kinds of things.
Russ Powell (B):
People thrive on it.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. So I can't say that, but I'm with you. That's not my preferred thing.
Russ Powell (B):
I tried to hire that out as I can, and the people I hired, they're brilliant at it. Thank you.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Well, there's a really interesting framework that is useful for thinking about those things. This is something that I really like from Michael Hyatt, actually, is called the Freedom Compass. And I'm not going to recall this probably perfectly, but basically there's actually. You know what? Let me look it up, make sure I get this right. But the idea of focusing on the things that you love and you're good at as opposed to. Because it's really easy to have things that you're. That you love, that you're not good at. Right.
Russ Powell (B):
You're echoing what I know is the Icky Guy model or Venn diagram that for four pieces that when you're thinking about your career, for example, you would. One of them is what you love. One of the circles is what you can get paid for. One of them is what the world needs. And I'm blanking on the fourth one, but the overlap of those.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Interesting.
Russ Powell (B):
Let's see. Rhyme is what you love, what you can get paid for, what you're good at and what the world needs. It's those four. Does that sound familiar or maybe different?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I'm not. It's. It's a similar idea, but it's a different application. Slightly different application. Because that sounds like it's more of like a career or starting A business.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah. Thinking about what you're going to do.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, this is more of like, understanding, like what you should be spending your time on. And so this is. There's basically. Yeah, so there's kind of four quadrants. One is proficient and not proficient and then passionate and not passionate.
Russ Powell (B):
Okay.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And the idea is that you want to try and spend as much of your time doing things that you're proficient and passionate about.
Russ Powell (B):
Okay.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So that you're both enjoying the work and you're efficient with that time.
Russ Powell (B):
Okay.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
And then that's called, like what he calls the desire zone. The distraction zone is things you're passionate about but not proficient at. So those are things that, like, you like doing, but takes you two or three times as long as someone else and just end up waste being a waste of time even though you really like doing it.
Russ Powell (B):
That's like me with Photoshop.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
There you go. Yeah, exactly. I would say that's even me, like, as someone that's a bit of like a tech nerd, I can get really in the weeds with some IT stuff, and it's actually way more cost effective for me to hire it out and for me to focus on the business, even though I could get there eventually. What takes me six hours may take them an hour. And then there's the disinterest zone, which is for you probably. Well, there's the disinterest zone and the drudgery zone. So disinterest is things that you're proficient at but you're not passionate about. So, like you're. You're good at doing it, but you don't really want to be doing it. And then the worst is drudgery where you're not proficient and you're not passionate about it. And that's just a slog.
Russ Powell (B):
Got it. So that sounds like spreadsheets for me. I'm really good at them, but I would prefer not to.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Anyway, so the idea is that you basically get rid of, delegate, or automate anything in the distraction, disinterest, or drudgery zone, so that you're spending as much time as possible in your desire zone. So I find that to be a pretty useful framework for thinking about this.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah, I like that.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. So it could be useful for the coaching.
Russ Powell (B):
Yes. Yes.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So we talked about the. Let me pull this back up here. So what do you think? What makes you different compared to other kinds of leadership and development coaches? Like, what do you kind of think is.
Russ Powell (B):
Apart from the fact that I'm a really good juggler.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. Aside from juggling skills.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah. Well, there are four things that I tend to think about. One of them is that I tend to focus on problem solving. Right. Like lots of coaches will. You know, I'm going to help you learn how to communicate better. Everything I do is in the service of helping you be a better problem solver. People leave my workshops and say, oh yeah, Russ helped me learn to communicate better. And it's in the service of solving problems. Right. So that's one of them. I mentioned the fact that all my models slash Chris Holmberg's models are simple but not easy. Right. So they're simple to remember but not necessarily easy to. To use. One of the other things is I tend to, and this is again an influence from Chris Holmberg, I tend to think of teams and help others. Think of teams as biological systems rather than mechanical systems.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay.
Russ Powell (B):
And you'll hear this, people. Oh yeah, I want my team to run like a well oiled machine. Like, no, no, no, no, no. I can't remember if I joked with you about this. It's like when you wake up in the morning to start your car, it doesn't start. Right. So you go and diagnose what's going on and you discover that there's a spot spark plug in a bad mood. That's what a human system is like. Chaotic, they're unpredictable. And so what I teach is it helps with that. And then the fourth thing is middle path, which is that's the name of the workshop that I teach and stuff I get from Chris. And that's all about helping leaders recognize extremes, avoid those and move to what we call the center or the middle path. I'm happy to elaborate on that now or another time.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah.
Russ Powell (B):
But those four things I think separate me from others.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah, that's really helpful. I think once again, coming back to it, when the frameworks that you're trying to use or systems you're trying to use are too complicated, then you don't do them. Especially when the things you're dealing with like leadership and stuff like that and problem solving are difficult on their own to figure out. And so when you try and apply a complicated framework against it, I can only imagine that the success rate isn't great.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah, yeah. So I love, and this is something an influence of Chris's is that give me a simple model, something I can remember almost instantaneously and I'm far more likely to use that than 17. There's one out there. 17 step model to better communication. I'm like, holy cow.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. That's crazy. That's too much. That's too much. So we are getting close to the end of our time, and I think. I think I want to get into the bonus questions because those are always kind of a fun baseline to hear different people's answers to things. The first one is to come back to books. And what are some of the books that you've either gifted or recommended to people the most?
Russ Powell (B):
Business or personal?
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Whichever you're your choice.
Russ Powell (B):
One of my favorites these days is a book called Humankind. Bregman, I think. Rutger Bregman.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay.
Russ Powell (B):
And Humankind. It's a wonderful book about how do you remember. Well, if we ask people, you know, do you think people are basically good or basically evil? And often we get back, oh, well, you remember Lord of the Flies, right? You know, the kids on an island, they end up, you know, attacking each other. Well, this book is about how human beings are basically good to each other. And he goes and gets some research. There's a real life story about kids that were stranded on an island. They weren't found for like maybe a year, year and a half, and they had done really well. They had, you know, figured out.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
So real life Lord of the Flies, exactly.
Russ Powell (B):
Have justice systems, and they built, like a gymnasium, well outside, but took really good care of each other. The exact opposite of the Lord of the Flies. It's called Humankind by. I think it's Rutger Bregman.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Interesting, Interesting.
Russ Powell (B):
That's one. There's another one on the personal side that I've been. When I was doing my counseling studies, I came across this idea that human beings, especially men, don't deal with grief very well.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I believe that. Yeah.
Russ Powell (B):
There's a book called how to Survive the Loss of a Love that I have probably given away 100 copies of that. And what I love about it is it addresses the grief issue. Right. But it's written by a medical doctor, a psychologist, and a poet. Right. And so the medical doctor kind of gives you biologically what to expect. The psychologist gives you kind of intellectually or emotionally what to expect, and the poet offers a poem for whatever the topic is.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Huh. That sounds very interesting.
Russ Powell (B):
An example would be when you experience some sort of loss, you're going to feel tired. Right. It's like, you know, your body has to recover from this.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Right.
Russ Powell (B):
So the medical doctor gives you what to expect. You know, the poet says, there will be no poem today because the poet is taking a nap. But, yeah, so that's. That's easily the book I've given more than any other.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
That's. That's great. No, that's a good recommendation. Thank you.
Russ Powell (B):
Sure.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
On both fronts. So the. The other thing is that I ask a lot of people is what would you put on a billboard, you know, over a busy freeway? You want to, like a piece of advice that you'd want everyone to.
Russ Powell (B):
You know, my first thought on that is there's something like there are two secrets of success. The first is never reveal everything. You know.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I just love that I'm chewing on that one.
Russ Powell (B):
There are two secrets to success.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Yeah. So you've already revealed everything you know.
Russ Powell (B):
Well, no, you just. You don't. You're not going to get.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Oh, you don't get the second one I got. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Russ Powell (B):
But the real one was, I was thinking, thinking about this on the way over here, that one of my favorite authors is Jean Le Carre, the spy novelist. And he has this quote, something like a desk is a terrible place from which to view the world. Something like that. Which suggests to me that you gotta get up, you gotta be out meeting people, doing the work, that kind of thing.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
I love that. That's great. That's great. I think that it comes back around to it's very easy to get stuck in the hamster wheel and not just get out. That, to me, is actually a quote worth.
Russ Powell (B):
Dangerous. A desk is a dangerous place from which to view the world.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Something like that. Yeah. That's a really good thing because we end up working so much and it's just easy to lose all that. Just lose so much of your life in front of a desk.
Russ Powell (B):
What great questions. This has been so much fun.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Thank you. Thank you. It has been wonderful having you on. It was great chatting with you. A lot of interesting insights.
Russ Powell (B):
Likewise. Likewise.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Definitely have you back on the podcast at some point in the future. So thank you so much for being on. Do you want to. Anything you'd like to plug here?
Russ Powell (B):
Oh, absolutely, yes. My new line of soaps? No, my Leadership in the Middle Path program. It's a workshop that helps individuals and teams be better, collaborative problem solvers. And I've got two of those coming up. A virtual one in January and another one in Petaluma, April. And if you just Google Leadership in the Middle Path and Russ Powell.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay, that sounds good.
Russ Powell (B):
Yeah.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
What's your website?
Russ Powell (B):
Just russpowell.com.
Jonathan Mahrt (A):
Okay, perfect. R, U S S P O W E, L L. Exactly. Okay, perfect. Yeah, perfect. Well, thank you so much for being on. This is the. On the Flywheel podcast. You can find me at on the Fly, the podcast at on the flywheel.com Please rate it like it subscribe and then you can find Flywheel Consulting at flywheelconsulting co. Thank you everyone for watching and listening.